04 Jun What is Good Copy & How to Hire a Copywriter – Interview with Copywriting Queen Tina Lorenz (FHL 2019)
Tina Lorenz is called the Copywriting Queen and she gives us some great insight on what is good copy, how to hire for copywriting, and how this all fits in with business. Interview from Funnel Hacking Live 2019.
Vince: Welcome to another episode of Own Your Brand Academy. Today we’re talking to Tina Lorenz, copywriting queen, as she discusses what is good copy writing, how to look for it, and tips on both how to be a good copywriter, and also how to hire one.
Vince: So, stay tuned and learn how your brand and business can benefit. Cue the music.
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Vince: All right, everybody, we’re here with Tina Lorenz at the Funnel Hacking Live 2019, and Tina Lorenz is an amazing copywriter. She’s a member of the 2 Comma Club Group, and she’s going to be bringing us some great information today on copy, and what the average business owner entrepreneur can do to enhance the way that they describe what they do, who they serve, and why they’re doing it for their clients.
Vince: So, she’s going to give us a couple of ideas about that, and at the end of it she will let us know just a smidge about how she’s able to give you some information, how to hire the correct copy person for your business too.
Vince: So, welcome Tina.
Tina Lorenz: Thank you Vince. Thanks. It’s fun. It’s fun to be able to do this here today.
Vince: Yeah. It’s great.
Vince: So, in case you all didn’t know, Tina Lorenz is considered the queen of copywriting in our private mastermind groups, and she’s also the queen of the best hair in our group.
Tina Lorenz: A little bit rained on right this minute, but that’s okay.
Vince: So, tell us, Tina, a little bit about what you do, and maybe how you got into this.
Tina Lorenz: Well, that’s kind of a long story, but I’ll try to shorten it up. But, basically, I do the marketing strategy and write all the copy elements for my clients. A lot of times I’m figuring out the whole strategy, so it’s not just a one off I just need some e-mails, or something like that. So, I’m pretty involved in everything from sales letters to the e-mails to webinar scripts, video scripts, anything and everything that has to do with copy. ‘Cause copy is really the basis for everything.
Vince: Yeah. So, some of those that don’t really know, I mean, you hear the word copyright, and you think is that somebody who helps write a book, or is that somebody who helps write small items-
Tina Lorenz: Is it a trademark, is it copyright?
Vince: Exactly. So, tell us copy, the basic level, what does that mean?
Tina Lorenz: The basic level of copy is it’s the words. All the words that you use in your marketing, and it’s whether it’s spoken, whether it’s in a video, whether it’s in a sales letter, a funnel anything at all that you want to communicate starts with a copy. And that’s why I say that the copywriting is the foundation for everything, and I really encourage entrepreneurs to learn it for themselves, or know what to look for when they’re hiring someone because it’s everything. Without the words you don’t have a message.
Vince: That’s great. So, I mean, copy for the average person like they might consider I have my website, I might be doing some marketing materials, brochures, copy’s pretty much an element of all of that-
Tina Lorenz: Everything.
Tina Lorenz: Everything, including your videos. I mean, maybe you’re talking the copy. I refer to talking the copy. So, you want to be thinking.
Tina Lorenz: Let’s just say you’re doing a video for Facebook ads, for example. That’s really a mind bender, actually, because all the things they teach in copywriting kind of go like this, because it’s completely the opposite when you’re doing a Facebook ad because of Facebook’s terms of service. And so, you have to really be thinking, “How am I going to express that thought, and how am I going to do it effectively, and how am I going to reach the right people?” And sometimes with a little kink thrown in it like how you do a video for Facebook. So, you really have to be able to think it through.
Vince: Wow. So, at the base level it’s simple, but you also have to have some thought and planning into what channels you might be using it on. So, written word for printed materials is going to be different than for a website, it’s going to be different for a promotion, it’s going to be different than the channel you’re using. You mean like Facebook, or even Instagram?
Tina Lorenz: Exactly. But the thing is though that it goes deeper than what people think just on the surface. I always say it’s more than what the obvious is.
Tina Lorenz: Let’s say you’re selling toilet bowl wipes, or something like that, there’s another deeper reason why people want whatever it is that you’re sharing. I mean, copy even includes just persuasion and churches. Things that might not even involve money, but you want to bring people in. You want to bring people into your community. You want to bring people over into a shared belief system. You want to do something for a charitable organization. It still involves the copy. And so, you have to know the deeper story beyond the obvious.
Tina Lorenz: So, it isn’t just, well, here’s your headline, here’s your bullet points. It goes much deeper than that, and that’s one of the things I teach is how to go more deeply into beyond the obvious. It’s always about something more than what you think it is on the surface.
Vince: So, copy is actually really what we’re learning in our groups with ClickFunnels, Russell Brunson, and some of these marketing masters who are teaching us all this great information about persuasion. Copy is the written word of that marketing-
Tina Lorenz: Absolutely.
Tina Lorenz: Right. And it’s for anyone that wants to persuade, share, attract, include, sell. Selling isn’t a four letter word.
Vince: So, a lot of small business owners they think, “You know what? I don’t want to sound salesy, or I don’t want to push my services on somebody.” And I think there’s that disconnect with persuasion and selling, and kind of feeling inauthentic.
Tina Lorenz: Yeah. So, that’s-
Vince: If that’s the word inauthentic.
Tina Lorenz: That is the word, because that’s why my programs called authentic copy, actually, because-
Vince: It was almost like I planned. I did not plan-
Tina Lorenz: We didn’t plan that. We absolutely did not plan that.
Tina Lorenz: But the thing is that’s the problem. Sometimes when I’m teaching people copywriting someone will say, “Well, you know, I don’t like selling.” And so, what I’m going to say is, “Well, really? If you really don’t like anything to do with marketing you shouldn’t be doing it. You really should not be doing it.” What it takes is a shift in your belief. Your belief about what selling is. And so, if you think of it as serving, you think of it as serving the people that need what you have, and it’s not manipulation, it’s not the hammer lock, “I’m going to do this until you buy the thing.” It’s about forming that relationship, that connection. And that you do that through the copy whether you’re speaking it, whether you’re writing it, whether it’s a headline you’re bringing people into your need for belief system, and your value system of why you are doing what you’re doing.
Tina Lorenz: And so, when you do that, and you shift your thinking to how do I serve … How do I serve? And these people are looking for something. They need this thing. Whatever your thing is, they need it. They want it. They’re looking for it. And they’re already kind of on that track, and you’re getting into that conversation, we call it the conversation that’s already going on in their head, you have to know how to answer into it where they are at. So, it’s not converting, it’s not dragging them up the hill or anything like that it’s just joining them where they already are with what they’re already looking for. And understanding how your languaging, and your copy speaks to them at a really integrated and smooth way. Smooth in the sense of the flow of how you communicate.
Vince: Oh, that’s beautiful. I think that’s the perfect way to look at it. If you’re worried about … Some of our listeners if you’re worried about how you’re going to get your point across, and you’re thinking, “I don’t want to be salesman salesy.” If you come from the position of I’m trying to be of service to my ideal customer by providing a solution, which I feel is a great product, otherwise you wouldn’t be in business-
Tina Lorenz: Exactly.
Vince: How am I delivering that to my customer, and persuading them that my product … I’m trying to deliver it in a way that I’m trying to be of highest service to that client. And for those of you who don’t think that we sell, I mean, everything is sales.
Vince: I heard Garret White once say that everything is sales whether you’re persuading your wife to go on that first date with you, if you’re persuading your children to get in the car when they don’t want to-
Tina Lorenz: Exactly. Exactly.
Vince: Trying to create a new relationship-
Tina Lorenz: Getting a two year old into the car seat-
Vince: Everything is persuasion-
Tina Lorenz: Heavy duty persuasion, yeah.
Vince: You might as well have a framework I think … Thanks, brother. You might as well have a framework around that.
Tina Lorenz: It’s all natural.
Vince: It’s all natural. We’re-
Tina Lorenz: It’s in real time.
Vince: We just had someone walk right in front of our cameras here.
Vince: And this is just persuasion. You might as well have a framework, and know how to deliver your message so that you can get the most out of life, and so you can also interact with the people you want to, and have the ideal delivery to your clients.
Tina Lorenz: Well, see this is the beauty of effective copywriting, because when you engage with people at that level, when they really see who you are, and they’re relating to who you are as person they start to like you. They know, like and trust. That happens through how you’re communicating in the copy. So, then it isn’t a hard sell. It doesn’t have to be a hard sell. It might be an enthusiastic one, it might be a passionate one, but it doesn’t have to be a hard sell if you’re already drawing in the right people.
Tina Lorenz: And this is the other thing about copywriting: Sometimes people think, “If I just have this amazing website, you know what? I’m going to make a bazillion dollars. Everybody wants my stuff.” But the thing is whatever you have, whatever any of us have to market is not for everybody. It’s not for everybody. And so, you need to not be afraid to say that. Here’s who this is for, here’s who it’s not for. And there’s these people over here [inaudible 00:08:53] over here, and then right down the middle that’s your sweet spot of the people it’s perfect for. And that’s who you’re making that connection with.
Vince: Okay. That’s brilliant.
Vince: So, those of you who are getting an idea about what Tina Lorenz does, now you know what copy is. You have a little bit more of an idea that it’s taking just good persuasion methods to get your ideal customer or client to understand that you’re delivering a high value solution to their problem.
Vince: So, typically, not always, someone who is a little bit busier, like yourself, might be a little bit higher priced, but you’re paying for what you get for. But it’s still some people just price themselves high, and they’re not really … You have to go through ask if they’re asking the right questions, and then don’t try to go as cheap as possible at first-
Tina Lorenz: Right. Exactly.
Vince: Because this is really opening the door to how you’re getting sales-
Tina Lorenz: Well, the-
Tina Lorenz: Potential copywriters should also be asking like at least to see some of what your program is, look at your website. They should kind of doing a little analysis of what have you got now, where you’re starting from, and maybe you’re coming in and you don’t quite know. A lot of times you don’t know what you need when you’re looking for a copywriter. You may not understand not everyone knows all the marketing components. And so, someone that can kind of guide you a little bit and say, “Have you considered what’s going to happen if you don’t do this?” And tell you why. Why do you need that piece?
Tina Lorenz: I do recommend that they keep separate website design and copywriting. Like I would never attempt to design somebody’s website. I will look at the design. I know what I want the copy to look like. But I recommend that they go for the person in their field of expertise, and nobody can do it all very effectively.
Vince: So, that’s another effective tip is to go online. So, there’s some online places, I don’t think it’s time to mention them right now, but if you’re going to be hiring somebody see if they have an expertise already in your market, if they know about that. And there’s people out there who specialize in all kinds of [crosstalk 00:10:38]
Tina Lorenz: Now, an agency might have like individuals that are going this one, and they might work together in cohesive ways. So, that’s a different thing. But I’m just saying an individual says, “I’ll build your website, I’ll write your copy, I’ll do all the design.” That’s kind of-
Vince: That’s a jack of all trades.
Tina Lorenz: Yeah. It’s not really someone who’s really focused and committed to one particular area of expertise, so you’re just not going to … Somethings not going to fire in all cylinders when you do that.
Vince: So, four really good tips for those of you considering copy: Give you an understanding about copy, and how you can use that, implement in your business, and it’s something you should have in every area of your business whether-
Tina Lorenz: Absolutely.
Vince: It’s your printed materials, online materials even in the way you speak to somebody, one of your potential clients or partners. They should be able to get a good idea about what you do. Copy is one of the foundational elements of that.
Vince: All right. So, thanks so much. We have Tina Lorenz the copywriting queen. Go to TinaLorenz.com, and you’re other two websites?
Tina Lorenz: AuthenticCopy.com, TheRenegadeBoomer.com
Vince: Okay. Thank you so much for being on-
Tina Lorenz: Thank you.
Vince: And I hope that helped you all out.
Vince: The Own Your Brand Academy podcast. We’ll be talking to you all soon, and getting more great people like Tina on to give you some great free advice. Take care.
Tina Lorenz: Thanks Vince.